"But now about ep.
He may write whatever he wants, in my opinion, that's a main idea of the scene.
BUT: The article should start with the main editor comment "This is an article written by someone not in the Hugi staff, and doesn't at all reflect the opinions of the Hugi crew".
Rather I read at the bottom "Now that's what I call an excellent article / Adok" or something like that.
And just that makes Hugi #29 suck.
I do not want to critizise ep.
He doesn't know better, but thinks he is -who knows-.
There are plenty of those guys out there.
But the main editor of one of the better known diskmags?

Adok, I once really loved Hugi.
I did."

Hi Chock, I love your kind of answer as it's fair. I'm used to seeing a lot of insults even inside demo titles and nowadays I don't like that as this is for me a sign of lack of vocabulary from those which use them. You're for me better than others in their answers. But there's a mistake as Adok hasn't said "excellent article" about STS but about another one.

I think the scene is big and that there are a lot of not enough lighted demos. But wait: Ha yeah! I find my mistake! Well after 3 years of bad demo experience, the 3 feb 2005 at 22h00 I found this Overlay/VMR knob nobody had found interesting to talk to me about and while watching CAP TV wild demo, I discovered how to get rid of the too black side of demos. Three screens have been used for years and no docs of video cards talked me about that. And as some demos were/are looking good without any change in the settings, I badly infered it was the "fault" of the demomakers. All my apologize guys. Next time I will explain my problem and I hope we will cooperate instead of fighting! Ha yeah, I'm a noob, a newbie, a lamer, a consumer,... Well and you, you haven't helped me find the solution, so you were no more clever than me!

teel/faktory^mc:

"dear ep, you're an idiot.

Ok let's try to see this from objective side:

Your post shows exactly how much you know about demoscene.
Demoscene's main idea, the thing the distincts it from other "multimedia art" subcultures, is that it's realtime, it's all about technical excellence.
How can you demonstrate techincal excellence on a video or animation?

You can't! And also you just got to face the fact that even if demos were made as animations, they still wouldn't attract masses any more than now, only other lunatics similar to demosceners and that's exactly how we want it to be and no one sees any of that as a problem.
There is nothing to save in the scene."

You're right, I admit, an anim doesn't show how technically excellent the coder and the others members are.

Demos neither!!!

Yes, nowadays the hardware range available at the market is so huge that we can get at the lowest cost a computer with half the power of the most powerful one, so a demo which runs well on a computer will not on another less powerful one. Nowadays too, hardware allows so many things directly and software apis are so powerful that you get some facilities while doing a demo. Does it mean everybody is now able to make a demo, finger in the noise in let's say one week?

Does it mean all sceners are now big lamers?

Of course not, but things are easier than before if we consider only the technical part: see the productivity of these days and you will surely see like me that demomakers are more productive than before. Why?

C++ is easier to learn than ASM, using API functions is easier than writing code by yourself. The technical side is not easy but is less preponderant than before: now what you do is mathematics and physics, and finding a way to make things tinier using textures generated on the fly, objects,... Coding has changed: coders don't know the hardware as well as before and nobody knows it except engineers who have created it and its drivers, coders now use what is available, following guidelines in books, there is no more self research about "What can I do with these hardware registers?", "Can I find a trick to speed this up a lot?".

Are there any hidden features to use to get special effects like overscan on ST?

It isn't possible to answer these questions today as nobody has the same hardware. So now the game is in maths and physics.

You're also right when you say animations will not bring more people to the scene, in fact demos are only interesting for people who can understand the challenge behind them. That's why I have asked (sorry imposed) active sceners to make tutorials. At a last attempt, I ask them, perhaps not to make tutorials as this takes time and is not as accurate as it must be, but I ask them now to link us to books and web sites they used to learn coding, making graphics, composing zik.

As there is no more buzz about coding on common scene places like pouet, and nobody talks about that anywhere I have put my eyes on. No more scrolltexts and as nobody talks, there is no word to type in google to find interesting stuff about scene / video / 3D concepts. Well, some diskmags talk about code, but not as much as before. Somebody will perhaps point me to the right site, the right book. Please no tutorials: copying something already done is the best way to stay at this level. What is needed is general instructions and knowledge about video functions, about mapping, 3D,... Hopefully by the mean time of this word war, I will get several books and will hopefully get what I'm looking for: hard theory, then I will understand video applications, evolutions. Once more, I will find the solution by myself...

It's also true that sceners are lunatics, which state I try myself to avoid as much as possible: I've been to amiga mania party and found a lot of people being lunatics there and I find that quite annoying: yes I'm now too old for demos and spending 50 hours in front of computers has led me to finding other spare time occupations.

"Also demoscene is all about competition.
Who can make something better than others and part of that competition is bragging about your own stuff.
When someone does that it just gives you urge to try to make something better than them so that it can be your turn to brag about it.
And that's how it's been since the very beginning."

Well, that's also a fact: sceners are sometimes braggart. I try to change this behaviour for myself: when you are a braggart you can continue being it till you get a problem or several ones. When this happens the fall is higher and more painful. I'd rather be wise. That's why I don't use insults: somebody can take them really bad and will probably get into actions to get reparations for, like finding the IP of the insulting sceners in pouet postings, then finding the ISP, using the laws against diffamations and then contacting the police... you know that?

We live in reality and in reality there are laws, too many IMHO but I can find in them what I need to get reparations for diffamation. But well, I also love that braggart attitude as I take it as a sceners' role play to get their reputation higher. I find that behaviour funny because it's extreme. I understand now what has happened: I've been too long far from the scene. I've lost the scene's habit, it's language, the sceners habits,... And so it hurts me as in reality they are considered bad, but I know now my mistake and our misunderstanding: this is a question of shape, of culture. You've an underground culture while I've been in contact with a commercial / mass society and I've had to adapt myself to survive.

"It's a tradition.
You point out in your post that traditions are against progress, but you must have noticed that everything and everyone has tradition.
I bet even you have some tradition (in your family, or just your own) that you do.
Traditions are, as mentioned earlier, a big part that makes demoscene what it is, an unique subculture that really has nothing alike anywhere else.
Still despite strong traditions demoscene has progressed a lot during the years."

That's why I love technology and why I love the scene: everything is alive and traditions aren't as respected as in other fields of reality. In the scene there are only a few rules and that's great because when there is too much nothing is possible to do, we spend our time finding rules and applying them. In the scene there's intelligence and common sense, which isn't the case with common reality.

The scene has evolved a lot, that's true too, and now in fact every demo I see is different from the others. I then don't understand them as for me nothing is classified or understandable as I don't have the necessary technical background. That's why explaining what is on screen is good: a lot of sceners who aren't coders don't understand it any more and when we don't understand something we love it less or not at all. When we understand something, we can compare and we can then say: "Ah, this demo is totally blasting all references."

"About your ideas about design.
Apparently you haven't watched much demos if you think all the demos are dark and gloomy.
There are plenty of other kind of demos too.
You have to understand that other people have different taste than you and not everyone has to try to make you happy.
Some people like dark and gloomy demos.
Other people like fun happy-happy-joy-joy demos.
And also something in the middle.
People do what they like themselves, not what you or the masses like."

I have written STS after seeing a wave of let's say 30 demos including 4K which weren't good at all IMHO, before that I have seen a lot of other demos which in contrast are far more better considering the topics. Of course everything is subjective but if you get a gun under your head you will surely find that unacceptable and for me seeing bombs, explosions, weapons, like in borots by xzm, or andromus by ainc wasn't a piece of joy. I find them offending and why? Because before seeing them I hadn't been told about the fact that they can hurt my sensitive soul. These were part of this wave and in the cold winter I found them really upseting while diskmag articles showed me people boozing, giving me an image of the scene dying thus forcing me to write STS.

"About "boozing".
Demoparties are all about social interaction, having fun with friends.
A party.
It's nice to enjoy a few (or more ;) beers with good company, bbq some food and basically being outdoors.
And alcohol also removes some social tension.
It's just fun."

You know in life everything is relative: you will find friends who share the same values as yourself and then everything goes OK, you find something which you don't accept due to your own experience or education and then everything goes KO.

Boozing is one thing for me which makes me KO. As I'm not masochistic, I don't drink so. The image I got from the scene in november 2003 due to photos of "alcoholic" sceners and articles + the so slow, ugly and hurting demos, was totally catastrophic. So I've written STS.

"Saying that when we drink alcohol we will die in an alcohol related car accident is just plain stupid.
Alcohol affects differently on each people.
I think everyone knows the health-issues about alcohol and what it does to you, but at least I much rather just have fun than worry about every goddamn danger to my health in the world (because there's plenty, not just alcohol :)."

Of course, not all people who drink will be dying in a car accident, nor will it cause problems for all of them, but the probability of such a disaster is increased. Knowing isn't experiencing, and sadly learning from such an experience isn't desirable - neither for me, nor for you: when these experiences happen, there are far too often injured people, some are boozed, some are innocent and teetotal, so please think a bit about others when acting... At a party, obviously you will meet friend so why boozing? Ha yeah, it's forbidden and you want to be free so you do what is forbidden!!! Ha, ha, ha! It's childish: if things are forbidden, then before doing them, ask you simply the question why? And then when you will find the answer, ask you which will be the implications of your "forbidden actions" on both you and the others around you. You don't love the establishment? So why do you drink/smoke? Lots of money from the sales of legal drugs like alcohol/tobacco comes to the pocket of the so called establishment, simply check and you will find this truth. Social interaction? Hey guy, you are so anxious you need to drink to go and talk with somebody at a party? Sceners aren't cannibals, nor killers: I remember, I've been at the 3s and the hoodlum cracker was looking like a fond of metallica, with chains around neck, hard rock t-shirt with dead guys, and so on. Well I'm the most timid guy in the world and I've talked with him, I've even lent my action replay cartridge to this guy for testing purpose. A cracker!!! And nothing was stolen, nothing was destroyed, and this guy hasn't hit myself, nor have I hit himself. And 2 rows table behind us, there was the team who was responsible for the game they were cracking!!! Totally mad!

"And I forgot the most important:
You're all bunch of homos!"

Oh, yeah! Watch out your ass: more than 100 sceners are againt yours!!!

RA5MUS:

"THANK YOU EP! YOU ARE MY HERO! I AM SO MUCH LOOKING FORWARD TO SEE YOUR WICKED CONTRIBUTION TO THE DEMOSCENE, SEEING HOW MUCH YOU KNOW ABOUT IT - THAT MUST MEAN YOU WILL BLAST US ALL AWAY WITH YOUR MEGADEMOS!"

My contributions?

Well from present to past: articles for Hugi and second in the nineties, I have helped Ghandy of gods making Jurassic Pack more compatible with different Amiga configurations, I have also writen a so called startup (a skeleton) to help demos run from workbench, with different kinds of hardware and different contexts (more than 30), with processors from 68000 to 68040. I have also made a config encoder for psychotrope spaycepacks to avoid easy takeover of Falcon's / Psychotrope &emp; honoo work. I have helped demomakers to become more famous by swapping a lot of so called stuff (demos, free demo tools). I have given also english assembly courses to german mates like kestrel /syndrome. And finally I have collected, organized, system cleaned and swapped a lot of assembly sources and docs to known and unknown coders like for example Patapom. Ha yes, I was also responsible for putting illegal stuff in envelope, the so called video games you were playing en masse for free! Yes, I was responsible for your free and illegal entertainment! Shame on me!

Psonice:

"I'd give EP's article a double thumb up, because it was damn funny.
Here's a quick summary for those who can't be bothered:

Stop making demos, join the animation scene and make anims instead.

Stop making intros, join the shareware game scene and make shareware games instead.

Stop making 4k/256b etc.
and join the screensaver scene, and make screensavers instead.

And that's the proposed strategy for SAVING the scene =D"

You misunderstood my badly written messages:

1) distribute demos "also" as animations once anim formats will have become good enough
2) distribute 4k / 256b as screensavers

scamp:

"Let's face the reality:

- Hugis main editor isn't a scener.

- 95% of all article authors aren't sceners."

You are right so why don't you write articles instead of only reading them?

Hugi is too lame for you?

Hey guy, if you want content, then make content. A lot of people have told me I haven't written demos and so I have no right to open my mouth about demos. This argument is worthwhile and I can use it for articles too: you don't write articles so why do you claim to have a right to open your mouth about them?

I know my mistakes:
1/ I've said your work isn't perfect and you understand "he said our work is bad", while I was not releasing demos myself.
2/ My way of writing conducts to misunderstanding (too long!)

Now go and find yours:
1/ you have not analysed the psychological context of article writing
2/ you have not helped finding a solution, while being sure you were right
3/ you have not asked information, nor questions
4/ you have not given arguments, nor demonstrations

I sent the article to Chaos / fb and I was interested in the shape of the answer: really clever guy and I'm serious. He took the whole article and gave arguments against any point of view he wasn't happy with, he gave examples, he gave links, he gave demonstrations. Well, reading this answer, I got a good lesson and this was useful for both of us:
1/ He was clear in his head as he justified everything
2/ I have understood and agreed to his demonstrations, arguments

And please write articles, at least the contents will be more in adequacy with scene reality.

Zplex:

"As what i have heard the demoscene is dead, so there is no need to save it.
I guess it died because of too many black backgrounds in demos...
also known as the Black Death...
which killed numerous of demosceners."

We are all dead, I talk from a recorded CD, before the EP bomb violently strikes the pouet download area. We were then absorbed in totally brainblasting talks which lead to nowhere, this was the death of the scene: stupid talks and no actions, no demos, black backgrounds everywhere hiding everything from the viewer's eyes. Please light up the sun in demos so we can see the damages: bored minds, closed eyes... But yes, you are right, humour and irony help understanding. Hopefully my article was STS meaning something is still alive because when something can be saved, then all living activities aren't killed.

Mjz:

"This is the first diskmag I took a look at, and I think some articles are good.

The "deadlines kill the scene" article sounds somewhat silly to me, but "art vs. technology" is an important issue even though most newer demos seem to already be about art. The fictional and non-fictional stories are nice, and so is Optimus' text about himself as well as other parts.

And, yes, I think diskmags are outdated in a way that in a few years everyone will have a broadband flatrate, so they should atleast ALSO be avaiable as HTML online. That way they are more accessible and commenting becomes easier."

Ok!

dake^cdx:

"I had to read EP's article.
It's incredibly good, full of wise science and I understand the difference between a raytracer and 2D graphics now.
Thank you, you can leave now."

Please, write a small article, "the philosophy of raytrace". This will help me stop writing bullshit. At least mistakes show were lamers need education, with it mistakes disappear and knowledge rises. This is good for everybody.

meCh\\bps:

"'And dark is for me (for you too, not?) the color of death and death is not creativity, death if the end of all activity.'

Philosopher-wannabe bullshit.
That kind of crappy talk is allowed for ancient geniouses like Aristotele, but not for you.
Modern philisophy is about solving problems, not producing them."

Ok! Please give me your source of modern philosophy so I can improve my knowledge. For me, solving problems is my life and I find that quite annoying when users are around: I mend computers and do system and network administration work. Solving problems is a kind of spirit, creativity spirit is another useful one, too. Creativity makes me happy, so I write, but perhaps I can do other things. But more generaly there are not only problems to solve but aims to reach. Mine with this article, that you will read, reread, reread, is to understand I've been mistaken and a lot of pouet posters as well.

"I thought i would not write in this topic anymore, but now noticed i lack some mental powers to do that.

I'm far from calling someone, even ep an idiot only since his foolish theories. Back in days i was the same, as i called myself 'revolutionist of demoscene' with a mission. Your major problem is lack of basic practial knowledge about demoscene."

Ok! You are right, since I study computers at school, I left the main idea behind computers and following computer coding courses has simply killed my passion. I need to find back my first love for computers but I have discovered other kinds of activities and so the passion is so low now, I will perhaps stop computers at all. Practically, since the DOS days I have lost the focus of computer graphics programming, watching sources from here and there I find all this cool and really abstract work. I think this kind of coding stuff is great from the theorical and mathematical point of view, practically it needs time to be mastered but pays well in return (more code in less time, more fun things possible, more abstract stuff, good for brain), but it lost hardware talking "intimacy". But who cares: everything is virtualised, even hardware!!!

Concerning demoscene, it's all about friendship and emulation, well at least for me. Good dudes from everywhere try their best to astonish everybody, and make the audience happy or at least interested in their works.

"Not to be ungrounded and to but it briefly - your ideas may be good, but there's one thing you didn't notice - changing those things will make a scene like someone called 'just an another internet community', not a scene."

Ok! I was wrong.

"You may say - are the disadvantages priveleged only becouse they are the main 'source' of something?

No, but just think another time. You noticed the theory or relativity - and you might use it now. Don't you think something you find bad would not be same ugly for others?

Haven't you thought some of us like to be drunk and produce coded realtime productions, even though they recoil some troubles?

No one forces you to stay with us, sceners. If you cannot accept the way we are just for your own interest leave us."

Ok! You are right there too.

"That's like making robot-dogs. They does not make such a problem like living ones, but without them we have no real fun of training them. Then ask yourself - why?"

Ha, you love having problems to find the solution and then apply it! But happiness comes from avoiding misfortunes. Big machines with tons of problems are a source of misfortunes, or perhaps you love being a hero, finding solutions and then it brings you happiness? Well, ok! But what does it have to do with my article and badly understood views about the scene? Anims for broad spreading of prods, .exe for real time demonstrations. My spirit.

"Then another think. Personally, i think that alcohol is not a good think but I accept some sceners to drink huge amounts of it, only owing to the fact I don't really care about them. If you hate something - just leave it. Drinking is not the main topic of the scene, no one would care about it if you were making great productions."

You are right there too!

"And yes - scene is about productions and the quality of them.
Change the scene by _material_ things, not a crappy talk.
If you want make wild demos only, just WHY THE HELL AREN'T YOU DOING THEM?

Or i haven't heared about them at least.."

Ok! I leave France for working and family purpose, after that, if I have some times, I promise to start coding directX or OpenGL.

"demoscene is about a _realtime animations_ don't you get it?

i give it up, talking to you is like speaking to the blind and deaf wall (sorry goes to all the walls i know)"

Sorry, DP's answer got on my nerves and then I lost comprehension. See my point above.

"constrictive criticism is included in most of our posts (forgetting about some 'you fuck' voices)."

Obviously the fuck voices are getting on my nerves and I am focusing too much on them. Thank you for giving me the right analysis.

"there are thousands of tutorials for coding, bilions of free tools for free code...

and where's the clue?

just bother to check google for blender,the gimp and devc++."

Thank you for the hints. I wasn't aware of devc++, and blender. Is there a way to get 100% compatibility with Visual C++ in less time than taking a cup of tea?

"You contradict yourself.
If in few years todays animations would be done in realtime, so why doing animations?

You will _always_ find someone with an old hardware or at least would be able to use emulator to do.a vis of old demos. Anyway, the classic ones are actually stored in .avi files for archivization, so another time - wtf?"

Always finding old hardware? Well hardware is used and break sometimes... Emulators? Well not good enough. Moreover, I lose the real time effect. Here anims can be a solution. But for now I find this solution not satisfactory at all: jerky, ugly, slow - well, anims (at least divX) suck. In fact old demos are still living as long as old hardware is available, all anim conversions will lose something. I accept it, this is the price for evolution and improvements.

"eskimowhatever: if you don't have something useful to say, shut the fuck up.
becouse of guys like you there are moaning voices about scene's death and clueless."

Thanks to support me: "fuck" doesn't give any information while you give some.
Constructivism + creativity = progress.

Zplex:

"EP: The mainproblem with your article as i see it is your following statement:

'For several years the scene has largely been producing quite lame productions, without any interest for the masses.'

In my view the last 3-4 years the demoscene have produced some of the best productions ever seen."

You are right, I have a big mouth and have written something which is false. The demoscene has produced some IMHO "lame" demos in the last years, but it has also produced really great stuff from technical or fun point of views.

"Your statement is an insult to demosceners as i see it.

And you are gonna give advice to them how to "save" the demoscene... to make it better?

That too is an insult."

Well, you are right: I'm working at a school, everything is judged all the time, everyone is controlled, managed - well, freedom is none. I have made a mistake trying to apply all that to the demoscene: artists find their way in freedom not in rule. They use or create rules to carry out their projects, not to control others.

"first.. two basic questions:

1) have you ever participated in a scene production?

1) Have you ever been to a demoparty?"

Please see the article "My scene life".

"'and a lot of flames as it's so easy to flames others. Art is difficult but cristicism is easy (Destouches).'

yes. now do please show us your art. I have never ever heard of you before and here you come claiming all this bullshit about the demoscene...

please give us something that we might consider taking you seriously. If you can not deliver, we can do nothing but think of you as yet another troll.."

At this point, you've already read why STS was written and in which context. You can read about my scene life in another article. Of course it's not a lot but it has value nevertheless. Writing articles is also doing something for the scene: it takes me ages to release all these articles, this is hard work even if it's just typing, editing, drawing,... In hugi 29 i've also written other articles than STS and I've then given you some '"good"' time to spend reading information.

"'Insults show me your weaks as you aren't enough clever to show me I'm wrong using a reasoning, you simply put insults one after other and this show me your lack of spirit and vocabulary.'

And guess why most of us go for the insults?

We do not care for yet another never-heard-of besserwisser coming to save the scene from god knows what.
We have no patience for these things anymore since it has happened countless of times already."

I understand! What's a besserwisser? And I also understand another thing: With pouet and the Internet, sceners and people react instantaneously, there is no more time for reflection, for gestation and that's bad IMHO.

"'I've said sceners have to change: these posts show me I'm right again.'

you reason like a jesuit.
This is one of the reasons you also get flamed."

My lame family has taught me the Christian religion since my birth whereas rational reasoning is more interesting.

Sorry for giving "rules" to "follow". And sorry for you not being 100% tolerant and not being jesuit compatible! What is a jesuit reasoning generally? What reasoning do sceners want and accept as a proof? A demo and only a demo?

uncle-x/mfx:

"'Yes, there is no arguments, no demonstration of the fact that I'm wrong, no url with good demos to download'

why on earth should we tell you where to download / find demos?

if you haven't noticed, you're posting on the biggest demo review site on the web for fucks sake.

on the front page of this very same site there are some stats (as of writing):

12840 prods
3608 groups
6720 users
114630 comments

there are also top 10 lists here, there is scene.org, there is monostep....
You should know this shit since you seem to be so clear about other aspects of the demoscene and wrote and article in a 'scene' diskmag."

You are right, I was mad when writing some sentences of STS. The fact was I wrote this bad stuff after seeing so many demos which were not good in my opinion and reading articles which pushed me to believe that most sceners were now alcoholics. This was false and I've made a mistake.

"'THERE WAS A SHADE and I think a lot of
you have a spirit which erase a lots of shades.'

after this you go on an optimus-like romp of gibberish...

please try to learn English if you want to communicate by using it...."

You've pointed out my English weakness. I'm not as good as others at this language but I guess some sceners have read my article quite quickly and have summed it up it with caricatured views. werehas some others have taken the time to read it, understand it, and have made clever comments instead of customer like judgements.

Pdx:

"The "save the scene" article by EP seems to me to have not understood the demoscene correctly.
I find a large part of the enjoyment of a demo is being aware of the technical side of its creation.
Otherwise we would all obviously just make pre-rendered animations.
Without getting too silly, it seems to me the realtime restriction on demos can be likened to the "medium" of the art form, just like stone in sculpture or canvas in painting.
Just because it is not observable _visually_ it doesn't mean it isn't an important part of demos.
The problem is EP thinks watching a demo is all there is in experiencing a demo - the realtime nature, size and platform are also important factors."

I was like you before, when using non PC computers I was interested in the technical side of demos. Sadly nowadays hardware is evolving quite quickly and I simply don't understand the challenge anymore as when I see a demo, I can't say: "Wow, this coder has beaten a record, he has succeeded at making that with such hardware, it's astonishing!!!..." Why?

A broad range of different cpus with different powers (not only faster, but different meaning weaker on some points, stronger on others), different frequencies, and combined with different graphic cards leads me to total confusion about how to classify demos from normal to great or even excellent from the technical point of view.

Reading docs doesn't give me more as this was far more technical than what I was used to on other platforms. It seems that I have lost a lot during my studies, especially my passion for computer stuff. Working in this field leads me to a conclusion: most people don't use more than 1% of what is available, and more importantly, they aren't even aware of and have neither time, nor interest in getting involved with such a tricky trip. Moreover, for me the PC platform is a typical customer platform only.

Yes, all my work time is spent with lamers around me, interrupting me to get advice how to copy, rename, delete files, how to make texts upper-case and such things. I do networks too and servers / stations configurations, optimisations. I ask myself why so many engineers do so much useless work. When it comes to size, I understand it's a challenge to put so much data in only 64 kb. Yes, I found "the product" great. But seeing data storage capacity is used so little today (most of the time, pc are used for office automation works and hard drives are full of zero, meaning not used more than a quarter of their size) also leads me to the conclusion: Size when considering space needed on disk is nowadays no more a problem. I have a practical spirit, not an artistic, hard core coder spirit!

Of course, I was living in France, I had a good computer. Not everybody had so much chance.

Yes, download time is important, but this will be less and less important in the near future: The main aim for the industry in network stuff will be to reduce as much as possible the time needed to get the information from point a to point b meaning the bit rate per sec will be improved a lot quickly. Networks will replace TV one day or another, telephone will be also digitalized and networked, download time will be reduce to none and so size limit will not be really important.

64k format reduces musician's abilities as sound isn't as good as in a bigger demo, the same for gfx.

Tiny sizes are great for coders and only them, this isn't fair for others sceners IMHO.

"Also I fail to see why it is necessary to make demos appeal to a wider audience. They already have an interested audience - sceners, who have never been so large in number (as far as I can tell)."

You are right, the scene is bigger nowadays than ever but including chinese, indian and japenese in it will lead to something quite interesting both in aspects of art and technology: new ideas, new ways of thinking. And difference means richness of creativity.

RA5MUS:

"oh man, this thread is more interesting than the actual diskmag.

the authors are brilliant, the articles shows style and attitude - plus they are funny!

KEEP BRINGING CRAPPY HUGI'S SO WE CAN HAVE THESE DEBATES! :)"

Yes, you are a positive guy. Everything in life comes from bad to become better, hugi too.

Ghandy:

"Hugi as always: Worse graphics, outdated tunes and mostly useless &emp; uninteresting articles."

HI LARS! HOW HAVE YOU BEEN DOING SINCE THE DAYS OF JURASSIC PACK?
YOU WRITE FOR PAIN TOO!
HA HA HA!
I SEE NOW YOUR AIM HERE!
FUCKING FRIEND :)

CheesyTBC:

"JESUS FUCKING CHRIST
That save-the-whale article makes me wanna shot someone.
damn thats stupid.
no no no no no no no retardom maximus.
PURE BOLLOCKS ALL THE FUCKING WAY.

I like the idea about diskmags, and find it great that someone is writing them..
but DON'T MAKE EP WRITE ANYMORE. EVER"

I've chosen the JC icon because it was the only one with a human looking like face. If someone drew more pictures with other human looks, I will if possible change my avatar. JC was my main cause of suffering in my whole life. My education was at the beginning done by part of my family who believe in God and that wasn't the best time of my life to be honest.

I don't love this religion and mostly hate it, but I seem to be stuck with its principles. I think also some parts are good: mainly the 7 deadly sins and the 10 commandments.

Stonda:

"but the ep's views about scene are at best, ridiculous.

what the hell is wrong with you?

releasing demos as animations/videoclips and viewing them in thier binary form only at demoparties?

what do even seek by this "publicity tactic"?

so that you could watch Relais on MTV or in some local youth program?"

First I don't like the way you talk about me in the end of your post.

Second, I've said at first to release demos as animations to get full compatibility and only that. This is the only advantage of animations.

"too bad you can't be moderated as a troll but instead of that, as a arrogant fuckface who gave his little finger to a demon called life and now he shows up to rant the demoscene since it's not the same what it used to be."

Is there any need to comment this?

This shows me you are in fact more arrogant than me, and you judge my face without seeing it. The scene has certainly changed, and is now different, neither better nor worse, only different, and I can't compare what it was like in the past to what it is like now as everything has changed. I've realized that this is an effect of relativity.

"fuck your opinions, they're wrong anyway and you'll face endless amount of pain and torture and eventually you'll burn in hell."

Ho, guy, you know what? FUCK U!

Yes, I use such a langage here because it seems you don't have enough education to understand anything else. Sorry, become polite and after that we will talk in a more normal way.

Vulture:

"Can't say I'm any better writer than EP or other no-good-scene-thing writers that seem to have an interesting point of view.
It was weirdly "fun" stuff to read, though.
Worst thing that can happen when you release something is that it's ignored.

Thumbs up for efforts on putting up the magazine and continuing doing so.
Also, looking forward for some reaaally interesting articles ;)"

Thank you for your support, Vulture.

Stonda:

"instead of the four-letter-ones, i'll try to paraphrase my last chapter into more complex words, like mutilation, decapitation, bleeding inflammation, but mostly ep, i hope that in the next 10 seconds you feel a sensation of excruciating pain, in 15 seconds will cause arrested breathing and when 20 seconds have passed...

brainfire.

well, now this went little off-topic, but who'll recognize the movie?"

Well guy, I see you have plenty of culture... This is irony of course. I've used the icon of JC but I don't want to have the same end as him. If you are so bad, be prepared to meet worse guys in your future. Afterwards you will understand the importance of a value called respect. Respect me, and I will respect you. For now I will stop writing about your words.

Conclusion:

I acknowledge all my mistakes and my bad assessments about the demoscene. After these bad times watching really IMHO badly designed demos, I have followed the piece of advice given by Chaos / Farbrausch and have watched some really good and modern demos to finally understand that the demoscene isn't dead at all but in fact really alive and kicking. For now animation isn't a good way of distributing demos and I admit it's against the demo philosophy. Now my mind has changed since the days I wrote STS.

I thank everybody in this forum who wrote constructive and funny comments, I thank even those who were not polite as it proves to myself I need to improve my writing style not to hurt people using words. In fact I think these not so polite sceners are people using another language, "not politically correct" but in fact good to express what they really think without detour. I have understood that in fact this blog was full of boys with a childish spirit. I find that this is their way of communication like Americans using slang all the time to express themself. I mean this is only conventions; they talk like this as an attitude, this is their way: I have understood you and I in fact like this as this is a part of the scene spirit. I have also noticed there was emulation as almost all (I suppose they are friends, or this is team spirit) were against me and I also detected humour in their talk (see alkama, who is a friend of mine working in web pharmaceutic and who has followed with me the same studies during one year. In fact he was with me in the same class and we have worked together on several projects. and he have not lost his humour as i saw [erase all, we need space on hd for anims, begin with hugi :) and fucking JC, save the whales stuff :)]). I think they aren't so badly educated, they are acting like that because they love provocations. I know that spirit, it comes from the cracktros and find still existing as it allows them to get more information about the other side as thinking is stopped while we are being angry and so we are totally natural and this way see the truth. I also see the original scene spirit isn't lost: this way of talking and acting is a rebels' way of life. I think some guys have so much spirit in this scene (i mean math knowledge) that in fact they perhaps don't know anything about culture, but they don't need to as they perceive the world as a big thing to consume. they take life from the happy side: pleasure side.

With all your comments, me and you have got a better understanding of what the scene is and we have together seen that everybody has a different point of view about it.

That's the richness of life and you know what imho, this is what makes life interesting: when things and visions are different, we all get something out of the debate.

But now it's time for everybody to make something more constructive. I will do my best in future to make something more interesting than articles, you all wait for a demo or something to watch. Currently I have no time, but after all the tests I will pass, I will do my best to make a DirectX or OpenGL demo in C++.

EP/CosmiK

PS: Thank you for reading and don't hesitate to report any English mistakes: You've surely noticed my English is poor!!!

So please improve my style, improve my English, improve Hugi, improve the Scene.

Please write an article for Hugi about demomaking organization: how many you are, how you manage to get free time to code / graph / 3d modelize / compose / design a demo. We need to know the making of to appreciate the unknown / the outcome.